Episode Transcript
Ripple Conversations S1E2
Jharonne Martis: Hello, everyone, and welcome to The Ripple Conversations, the podcast where we explore what it takes to create meaningful change in our world. I'm Jharonne Martis, and today we're diving into some powerful topics allyship and community connection.
We'll explore how individuals and organisations are working together to create lasting impact, the importance of raising our voices for what matters, and how grassroots efforts can spark big transformations.
This episode is packed with insights to inspire and empower you to make a difference. I'm honoured to have an extraordinary guest with us today, David Schwimmer. He's the chief executive officer of the London Stock Exchange Group and a member of the board of LSEG plc. Since joining the group in 2018, David has overseen the transformation of LSEG from a European regional exchange group to a diversified global leader in financial markets, infrastructure and data services. Welcome, David.
David Schwimmer: Thank you. Great to be here.
Jharonne Martis: David, can you please share a pivotal moment in your career that inspired you to become an ally?
David Schwimmer: So when I joined LSEG in 2018, I came from an environment where allyship, focus on diversity and inclusion was, I’ll say pretty normal and pretty normalised.
Jharonne Martis: Okay.
David Schwimmer: I was at Goldman Sachs in New York. I had spent time in other parts of the world where the dynamics in the US, were not the same. So I had some sensitivity to it but I also took it as normal. Meaning it was important to focus on diversity and inclusion and allyship was part of that. I almost took it for granted that this was this was what, was a fairly normal construct within a corporate environment.
And early in my time here, I, saw rainbow flag on the desk of a colleague. This was actually over in LCH, over at the old gatehouse. And I said, oh, can I get one of those? Didn't think much about it, and I had one on my desk in the US when I was at a bank, and I thought, yeah, I need one of those here. And so, he sent one over to my office, and I literally used tape and put it on the wall outside of my office so you could see it from around. But I didn't think much about it at all I then went on a trip. That evening, I was in the Middle East for a couple days, and then I came back. And when I came back 2 or 3 days later, there were rainbow flags all over the floor.
Jharonne Martis: So you inspired a movement?
David Schwimmer : Well, so, it was surprising to me. And I realised at that moment. Okay. Very different. I'm now the CEO here. And clearly this is a different environment. And I got over the course of, you know, the next few days, I had a number of messages from people on email. Some people came to my office to say, sorry to bother you, but, you know, people would say to me, I have never seen that. I've been at LSEG, for X years, I've never seen this here. It makes me think differently about my workplace.
Jharonne Martis: That's a beautiful thing.
David Schwimmer: It was surprising for me and I think had had an impact in terms of how I thought both about my role and the opportunity to really have an impact in this area.
Jharonne Martis: So then what motivates you to keep pushing for progress?
David Schwimmer: Well, it's a recognition that the world is not a perfect place, and whether it's about discrimination or injustice or fairness or meritocracy, you know, lots of things we could talk about here. Fundamentally, I want to be a place where people really do feel included, really do feel they belong, really do feel they can be, their true selves, themselves, at work and those aspects really tie into our being able to attract the best talent in the world.
And so it's about doing the right thing. It's about attracting the best talent, and it's about making LSEG one of the great places in the world to work.
Jharonne Martis: Excellent. And so then how would you define allyship in the context of equity, diversity and inclusion?
David Schwimmer: All of these types of issues can be very complicated, but they can also be very simple. And so if you think about, trying to make change in this, trying to improve things in this area, you can have the I'll call it the minority group, get together and have, you know, what is what can be a very valuable group, as a support group. But if that group wants to drive change, or if you want to drive change on behalf of that group, to say to that group, oh, yeah, you get together and drive change just doesn't make any sense on its own.
And so it's about bringing in allies to help drive that change. I think there are other aspects of allyship that are helpful and beneficial as well. And I think it's really one of the great things about allyship is for the allies, to learn, and kind of expand their own perspectives. But if you strip all of the aspects of this away, other than the driving change aspect, then it's sort of it's almost silly to expect the, what is by definition a subgroup, to drive the change when you should have a broader partnership, the broader coordination, participation of the community and these allies to drive action.
Jharonne Martis: Right. So it takes everybody, it takes a whole community. And to your point about change, what does it mean to be an ally in today's environment?
David Schwimmer: So a lot going on. And yes, I think and we should talk about that.
Jharonne Martis: Let's.
David Schwimmer: I think I think to be an ally is to engage, to listen, to be open minded about learning to recognise the breadth of perspectives, the breadth of misunderstanding that's out there. And to engage in a way that can help, improve things and drive change and create an equitable, inclusive environment where, again, people feel like they belong and I think that becomes or has become more challenging in the environment that we are operating in today, given what's going on in the world.
Jharonne Martis: Absolutely. A sense of belonging has been one of the hot topics that we've embarked on on our illuminate program. Which brings me to the question, as an ally, what are some of the significant challenges and obstacles that you've had to face in your own work? And how did you navigate those obstacles?
David Schwimmer: Well, if I can talk about a very current issue, I've gotten a lot of questions recently as to whether we're changing our approach, given what's going on in the US. And the short answer on that is, no, we're not changing our approach. We will comply with the law in every jurisdiction around the world in which we operate. That's what we always do. But it's our culture. And we're not changing the kind of culture that we want to have and are continuing to build and create.
And that's a culture that is inclusive, where we want people to feel they belong. Diversity is a very important part of that. So just to touch on this issue for a moment.
The pendulum in some areas was swinging too far on, on one direction. Today, we have seen the pendulum swing very far in the other direction.
Jharonne Martis: The opposite direction. Yeah.
David Schwimmer: And the reason I describe it that way in terms of the, of a pendulum is that there's an element of this, too, shall pass. And what I mean by that is. Okay, we are at a pretty extreme moment right now where the whole notion of diversity and inclusion and equity is being demonised.
Jharonne Martis: Right.
David Schwimmer: I think that is not right. I think it reflects a moment of the pendulum swinging too far. And I think one of the important roles for people to play who care about this issue is to think about a more moderate and moderated, medium and longer term, where there are clearly aspects of corporate culture that we are very justified in focusing on.
And I think in the context of allyship, it's about taking that medium term perspective, recognising what's important to our people, recognising what's important to our culture and focusing on that, recognising there will be external noise, and not being too distracted by that.
Jharonne Martis: You talked about the changes in the pendulum. What lessons have you learned about resilience?
David Schwimmer: I would say it's about being consistent or true to your principles and taking sort of a more of a medium term perspective. And you could say that about this issue. You could say that about a lot of issues in the context of resilience. You know, the world throws lots of things that people. And if you take, a longer term perspective and recognise, okay, today's a tough day, but if I think about this over the next month or the next six months to the next year or two years, what do I need to do to keep making progress? That can be helpful in terms of how I think about resilience.
Jharonne Martis: So to your point then about resilience. Can you share a powerful story or a moment when your allyship made a meaningful difference in someone's life?
David Schwimmer: I've had a number of circumstances where. And it can be lots of little things, where you just point out either someone's behaviour in a meeting, or the way I run a meeting, for example. People will say to me afterwards, oh, that had a big impact or that was meaningful or that was helpful. Sometimes I will look around the room, and this came out of a little bit of training we did a few years ago. Look around the room and think about who in that meeting feels like an insider and who feels like an outsider, in many, many different ways. And then just make sure that as part of the discussion, you're bringing the people who are likely to feel like an outsider into the meeting, like really into the discussion. Again, that's just one example. But when you sort of incorporate that into your daily practice, if I can put it that way, has an impact. Because you, you could easily go through your regular cadence of meetings and hear from the regular insider group, most often. And if you do that, not only are the relative outsiders going to feel and continue to feel like relative outsiders, and it will perpetuate that, but you're also missing out on their perspective. So I think there's a there's a loss to the business. It comes back to yes, right thing and value add.
Jharonne Martis: You mentioned all these little moments. How do they affect you personally? About making a difference in someone's life?
David Schwimmer: Oh, it's a valuable thing to me in terms of my own approach to leadership. When I think about my role here, of course, it's to focus on LSEG’s strategy and the delivery of that strategy and all the execution that we have to do.
It's about getting the right team in place, having the right people in the right roles. And it's about having the right culture. Those are sort of the big three. I could mention it, but those are the strategy, people and culture. And the way that I interact with people and the tone that I can help set as the CEO, and the tone that that my leadership team helps to set, has a huge impact, you know, just looking behind you it says ‘Ripple Conversation’
Jharonne Martis: Yes
David Schwimmer: It has a big ripple impact across the organisation. And so I think it's really important to be aware of that and intentional about it.
Jharonne Martis: So if you're aware of that and want to be intentional about it, what are your hopes for the next generation of allies?
David Schwimmer: The hope I have at the moment is that, but we can get into a period of more moderation and more normalcy around this. And that gets to what I was saying earlier around the swinging of the pendulum. I think these are really important issues. I think it would be a challenge or a loss for the company, for the culture of LSEG, if we were to overreact to, some of the issues, for example, that we're seeing in, in the US.
And just to make sure that people take, as I said, a medium term perspective on this, what is the right thing for LSEG’s culture? What is the right thing for our people? And then act on that.
Jharonne Martis: So if we're making sure what's the right thing for the people, how can we ensure that the work we're doing today is laying that strong foundation so that we can have a lasting change?
David Schwimmer: Again, a lot of it is on what may be sort of micro, steps or baby steps. And some of that goes into the programs that we have at LSEG. I think the Illuminate Program is a fantastic example of that. Some of it goes into allyship, and the health of the various affinity groups that we have.
I think the way that we think about hiring, the way that we think about training, the way that we think about developing our talent, the way that we think about network, all of these different building blocks of our corporate culture and the work environment. I think it's really important to make sure that we're attuned to these issues. In each of those areas.
Jharonne Martis: So then before you wrap up, what would you like, our listeners, what final thoughts or messages would you like to share with them about the importance of allyship and community connection?
David Schwimmer: I think that the notion of allyship is probably the easiest way, if I can put it that way, or the most effective way. That's a better word. The most effective way of the LSEG community being involved in these issues, learning, and building a stronger, healthier, more attractive, more inclusive culture. And I think that the amazing thing about allyship, if you think about the diversity that is LSEG, there's a lot going on here, like it's an amazing environment. We are a global business, 26,000 or so, 27,000 people around the world, operations in 65 countries.
I get to spend time with each of our affinity groups. Sometimes I do it around the world. During my travels, I feel like I learned so much from those interactions. And I think it's made me a better leader and made me more effective. So, when I think about allyship, it's not just about, oh, become an ally to go help this group or do good for that.
It's really beneficial for each individual who does it just from a learning perspective. And it's beneficial for LSEG. It's the stitching together to mix analogy. Stitching together, adding building blocks, whatever image you want to use, of our culture. Like we're all in the process of creating the culture of LSEG. And that's something that is ongoing, and I'm really excited about that. And hopefully that will continue creating more ripples, as you mentioned before.
Jharonne Martis: Thank you so much, David, for your valuable insights today.
And thank you to our listeners for joining us. Don't forget to subscribe, leave us a review and share this episode. Until next time, let's keep breaking barriers.
